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Esotericism, Occultism, Magic, and Mysticism.
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JimmySwill
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Torsche

PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greyfaced wrote:
you wankers.....

I'm doing a survey on the name Harlan Godfrey, because someone might end up with it in about 6 months....

I'm checking it with gamers and giving the open comment period a try before I present it to the client who tasked me with giving him the best name for his PC that I can.

and the name was Grimlin....he was typhonae...or however you spell it.

k carry on.

Oh! Well, I don't think there is any way that Ars M could know that. Take no offense Ars. Smile -Our good friend and long time gaming buddy is soon to be a father.

I, however, should have picked up on that one.

Harlan. That's not a bad name at all. Do you get to work with the middle name?
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greyfaced
Heuristician


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 509
Location: Pleroma, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure he's gonna go for it.

He tasked me with finding a good name and submitting it. I don't like middle names.....so if the kid wants one he can pick it.

And yeah I didn't really expect Ars to pick up on the subtlety so nobiggie, but I thought I'd allow that he might have something to say about the name...

I'm sure he's made fun of and had names in games made fun of. If not, you're missing out, like not on board...

The A.S.S. Dragon is gonna leave without you.....

k again get back on topic.

What can you tell me about invocations of Holy Guardian Angels, or invocations of personal powers, or being ridden.....or whatever you'd like to call it..... Aiwaz etc.

I have had a conversation with my whatever it is, and it was nice. ISH. Specifically in European Magick when did the tradition arise of a personal angel and when was it considered to be non-christian and able to grant insight and power outside of the traditions the Catholic Church allowed for.

If you catch my drift I await your sagacity.
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Ars Mysteriorum
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greyfaced wrote:
I'm not sure he's gonna go for it.

He tasked me with finding a good name and submitting it. I don't like middle names.....so if the kid wants one he can pick it.

And yeah I didn't really expect Ars to pick up on the subtlety so nobiggie, but I thought I'd allow that he might have something to say about the name...

I'm sure he's made fun of and had names in games made fun of. If not, you're missing out, like not on board...

The A.S.S. Dragon is gonna leave without you.....


I'm the worst person to ask for a name. It takes me forever to think of one. It's the lengthiest part of any character creation I do for any setting.

My wife and I had lengthy discussions regarding my son's name that lasted for months. It had to suit a person on more levels than just a hero played on a twice-a-month basis. It was to be something he could grow up with and suit him at every stage of his life.

This site was of tremendous help. I find that the history of names is far more inspiring than any occult science. It ties us back to our origins and reminds us of the great connection we have to our fellow man not just in our era, but the eras that have passed and those that have yet to come.

I'm really no help at all!

greyfaced wrote:
k again get back on topic.

What can you tell me about invocations of Holy Guardian Angels, or invocations of personal powers, or being ridden.....or whatever you'd like to call it..... Aiwaz etc.

I have had a conversation with my whatever it is, and it was nice. ISH. Specifically in European Magick when did the tradition arise of a personal angel and when was it considered to be non-christian and able to grant insight and power outside of the traditions the Catholic Church allowed for.

If you catch my drift I await your sagacity.


The Catholic priest Marsilio Ficino (1433-1499) was one of the key philosophers of the Renaissance revival of esoteric philosophy (he translated the Corpus Hermeticum and is responsible for bringing the bulk of it back into Western Culture) and Humanism alongside Giovanni Pico della Mirandola and Lodovico Lazzarelli.

I'll quote my first essay on this figure in order to grant some context (again, ignore the oddly placed numbers, those are footnotes):

Excerpt from Ars Mysteriorum's First Essay: How Did Hermeticism Offer New Perspectives On Man and Nature at the End of the Middle Ages? wrote:
The fourteenth and fifteenth centuries were a time of upheaval and conflict as the Ottoman Turks increasing expanded their empire. While the Byzantine empire declined as a power in the East and Constantinople finally fell in 1453 to the Ottomans, the Western world profited by receiving fleeing Byzantine scholars, who brought with them came their Hellenistic philosophies. These philosophies would aid in giving rise to the ‘Plato-Aristotle Debate’ which provides an important background to the three figures of the Renaissance we will be examining later in this essay.25

Among those scholars who fled from Byzantium, George Gemistos Plethon (c. 1355-1360) is the most important. He was a Platonist who participated in the ‘Plato-Aristotle Debate’ by attending the Council of Ferrara and Florence (1438-1445) in order to assure Hellenistic influences on the theology of the Catholic Church were preserved.26 When the Council moved to Florence, Plethon found himself unneeded at the council and began lecturing Florentine humanists on Plato and Aristotle.27 These lectures would influence Ficino, who would later credit them with the genesis of the second Platonic Academy.28 It is also of some relevance to mention he believed Plato could become a the basis of religious unity, something which would resonate with Ficino greatly, though Ficino adapted Plethon’s pagan views of religious unity to apply to Christianity, and would take it a bit further in the creation of a prisca theologia.29 Another important connection between Plethon and Ficino was the choice of Zoroaster as the first sage in the chain of initiates.30

Antoine Faivre states that the idea of a prisca theologia was unique to Hellenistic philosophy and religiosity (notably, Stoicism, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Neo-Pythagoreanism) at the beginning of the common era, and would leave vital traces in the three Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), but it would not be until the Renaissance that “we see emerging a will to bring together a variety of ancient materials, [...] and that it was believed then that these materials could constitute a homogeneous whole.”31 This sort of understanding could be expanded to include the whole of the Renaissance, as a marrying of ideas throughout the ages with the great thinkers of the Renaissance era.

The Renaissance provided a time of rebirth in the arts and philosophy, but what made this a lingering and powerful cultural revolution, in comparison to the Renaissance of the twelfth century, was the advances in the technology of communication. The advent of the printing press in the mid-fifteenth century would prove to take the dissemination of unearthed information and the works of great philosophers (of Classic Antiquity to the Renaissance) to levels never before known.32

We have seen how Hermeticism was used to support Christianity in Late Antiquity, seen it re-emerge in the twelfth century and become conjoined with forms of operational knowledge which sought to correlate God, Nature, and Man. However, its powerful and widespread rebirth in the fifteenth century saw these ideas and qualities blossom into something quite new. It is in this context that Marsilio Ficino contributed so greatly to humanism, Hermeticism, and Western esotericism as a whole.33


Ficino's interesting form of astrological magic charged the planets with spiritual intelligence and his works are well marked for his ability to switch from a pious Christian voice to abruptly pagan in the same paragraph. Allow me to quote from one of his books:

Marsilio Ficino - On Obtaining Life From the Heavens, Chapter 23 wrote:
Whoever is possessed of a sound mind is naturally formed by the heavens for some honorable work and way of life. Whoever therefore wants to have the heavens propitious, let him undertake above all work, this way of life; let him pursue it zealously, for the heavens favor his undertakings. Assuredly for this above all else you were made by nature—the activity from which tender years you do, speak, play, act, choose, dream, imitate; that activity which you try more frequently, which you perform more easily, in which you make the most progress, which you enjoy above all else, which you leave off unwillingly. That assuredly is the thing for which the heavens and the lord of your horoscope gave birth to you. Therefore they will promote your undertakings and will favor your life to the extent that you follow the auspices of the lord of your geniture, especially if that Platonic doctrine is true (with which all antiquity agrees), that every person has at birth one certain daemon, the guardian of his life, assigned by his own personal star, which helps him to that very task to which the celestials summoned him when he was born.


Inspiring stuff.

This from a man who was never declared a heretic or ever apologized for his works (though his friend Pico did end up writing an apology).

I now go to enjoy a few beers with my family, but I'll expound on the marginalization of esotericism and occultism tomorrow.
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greyfaced
Heuristician


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 509
Location: Pleroma, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 23 eh....?

It's odd that they wouldn't have burned Ficino for that. But 15th century, and I guess it would depend on how published he was, and where he lived.

I was wondering if you could address specifically the notion of the personal daemon of the Greeks and its evolution into or relationship with the hermetic personal intelligence or the "Christian" guardian angel.

There seems to perhaps be a connection between a view of communicating with the outside world (planets, nature, divination) as a view that embraces and evolves into astrology. I might call that school external. Then there is another school that goes inward. This may have happened because of evolving knowledge and ritualization of hallucinogens.

grr.....I hate this format for communication. I'll read whatever you write.

Jimmy I bet you have talked to "something" ask my question better!

for those of you who think I rant like I'm a bit daft.....

Ars posted a quote from chapter 23 so....blame him.
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Ars Mysteriorum
Demiurge


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greyfaced wrote:
There seems to perhaps be a connection between a view of communicating with the outside world (planets, nature, divination) as a view that embraces and evolves into astrology. I might call that school external. Then there is another school that goes inward. This may have happened because of evolving knowledge and ritualization of hallucinogens.


While mystic traditions do include the use of hallucinogens, in modern Western culture most of that sort of "internal" esotericism is a result of psychology (Jung is a common name bandied about in this arena). I actually blame this form of psychology for the marginalization and stigma of superstition attached to esotericism and occultism as a whole.

More on that whenever I get time. Too much going on!
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Ars Mysteriorum
Demiurge


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
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Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry folks. My wife is only a week away from her due date and has the flu. Not sure I'll have much time in the coming days...
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greyfaced
Heuristician


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 509
Location: Pleroma, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with that.

I read the wiki on Holy Guardian Angel, you might find it interesting.

I dislike Jung, and I especially dislike Joseph Campbell.

On the whole drugs thing, I was just saying that I could see how the use of mind altering substances (really any) would encourage "internal" divination rather than external. I think the Greeks could go either way....which is tough because they went in and out.

There seems to be a possibility that the usual dualism that dominates world views would foster differing environments where one form takes cultural prominence.

Like is prayer inward looking or outward....? Nature vs Nurture...blah blah.
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JimmySwill
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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Location: Torsche

PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ars Mysteriorum wrote:
Sorry folks. My wife is only a week away from her due date and has the flu. Not sure I'll have much time in the coming days...

Sorry to hear that, Ars M. Best of luck with the dive into parenthood!
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Gregory Vrill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best of luck to your family Ars!
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greyfaced
Heuristician


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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Location: Pleroma, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
psychology for the marginalization and stigma of superstition attached to esotericism and occultism as a whole.


I'd be curious to hear more on this, you make it sound as though Occultism and Esotericism doesn't deserve to have its stigma of superstition marginalized; which psychology does in some way.

or you could mean the in some way psychology failed to capture the stigma and superstition that should be naturally attached to occultism and esotericism, in some kind of marketing fail.

If you want to use the name Harlan feel free....

and for a girl Marlowe. The name has, uh magikal powers and you get half off tuesdays.
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Ars Mysteriorum
Demiurge


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greyfaced wrote:
Quote:
psychology for the marginalization and stigma of superstition attached to esotericism and occultism as a whole.


I'd be curious to hear more on this, you make it sound as though Occultism and Esotericism doesn't deserve to have its stigma of superstition marginalized; which psychology does in some way.

or you could mean the in some way psychology failed to capture the stigma and superstition that should be naturally attached to occultism and esotericism, in some kind of marketing fail.

If you want to use the name Harlan feel free....

and for a girl Marlowe. The name has, uh magikal powers and you get half off tuesdays.


I will happily delve into this at a later juncture.

Today is my 6th anniversary with my wife and we are celebrating it by having our air conditioner die, despite my wife warning our landlord that she thought it was doing so after reviewing a comparison of energy usage between last year and this year. He condescended to her stating she was young and didn't know how things worked.

My wife is a mastermind of budgeting and numbers. I am a student at an expensive university and we are about to have a child, but have had no need to take out any loans or require any financial aid. She does this with a budget based on my work at a sandwich shop and her work as a receptionist at the hospital.

She is truly incredible, and we are both extremely responsible. It would not work otherwise. So when I heard that she 'didn't know how things worked' I wanted to cause bodily harm to my landlord.

It turns out she did know how things worked. Thursday it was 85 degrees in my house. The landlord, in a very apologetic manner (yet his inaction has placed us in this situation of monumentally poor timing and when combined with the poor treatment of my wife, I don't know if he can ever be satisfactorily apologetic for me), sent a tech who rang my doorbell, said it was 'fixed' and left without another word. For some reason I didn't trust his words.

The next day it was 80 degrees when I came home from work. The landlord sent another tech this morning and stated the AC has a Freon leak that cannot be repaired and we need to replace the entire unit. Wow, that's a different story.

My wife could go into labor at quite literally any moment and we have no air conditioning. It is unclear with what speed our landlord will react.

To say I am incredibly angry is a vast understatement of the gross stupidity of this entire situation.

That turned into a vent.

If any of you have any positive thoughts to send, I would appreciate it. Really.
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greyfaced
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done.

I'm sure little Harlan Marlowe Mysterium is stressful.....breathe.
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