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Question about healing rates

 
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JimLeCat
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Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Question about healing rates Reply with quote

Hi,

There's something that's bothered me since AD&D V1 and Wayfarers suffers from it too...

Health points go up as a character goes up in level, so weapon damage affects them less. Healing rates (including magical healing) however are fixed. So, as a characters level goes up, their proportional rate of healing actually drops!

By way of example, consider two characters, Fred and Joe. Both have endurance of 10. Fred is 1st level, Joe is 10th. Fred has 10 health points, Joe has 31. Both of them are in a fight and take a hefty blow from a sword for 10 points of damage. Fred is barely conscious (0 hits) and another such blow will finish him (he is two thirds of the way to dying). Joe has dropped to 21 and is still in good shape. He could two more blows like that before he is in the same state as Fred (he has lost about 28% of the hits needed to kill him).

Since the explanation for the difference isn't that Joe is physically that much tougher, just that with experience he's better at rolling with the blow, or dodging the main force of it, or whatever, Fred now has a nasty big hole in him and Joe has a basically superficial cut.

After the fight, if they both take bed rest for a few days (a good idea for Fred, considering his condition!) they recover at two health points a day. After 5 days, they'll be fine again. If either of them do anything active (not unlikely for Joe) they only recover at 1 health point a day, so 10 days are needed.

This means Fred has recovered from a life-threatening injury in the same time as Joe has recovered from some superficial cuts. Fred can recover at over 13% of his total health points a day resting, or nearly 7% if active, whereas Joe maxes out at 5.5% a day with bed rest!

What do you think?

Cheers,
Jim
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JimmySwill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have a very good point, Jim.

Really. This is a must for WGJ3.

Do you suggest a level based modifier to the healing rate?
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Gregory Vrill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was 1 hp/level, modified by Endurance and quality of rest. We always used that rule for D&D, it didn't make the cut into Wayfarers? I'd argue that that's errata rather than an optional rule Swill. JLC is right, I feel pretty strongly about this one.
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JimmySwill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg, I did recall something like that in your skill system now that you mention it. But how did this slip by you? I've been rolling as written. It seems we regressed. At any rate, Greg in your system, characters were much more flush with hps. If we are to 'erratify' Wayfarers, I think an adjustment of adding +1hp per every 2 levels would be more appropriate.
Quote:
1st-2nd: +1hp per day
3rd-4th: +2hp per day
etc...

I'd like other players of Wayfarers to ring in on this if possible. Anyone doing hp recovery differently?

You know, you spend a couple years on a roleplaying game, you print it. Sell it, and then the damnedest thing starts to happen... Wink
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JimLeCat
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

What you both suggest is interesting and would certainly work if balanced out...

I had something different in mind, which is to boost healing rates for health points above endurance. So, higher level characters heal faster so long as they don't get hurt too badly...

Something like, split your health points into three bands - up to endurance, from endurance + 1 to halfway to the maximum and from there to maximum (so Joe from my example above would have breakpoints of 10 and 21, while Fred would only have the one breakpoint of 10, because he has no health points above his endurance). Then for each day a character is at or above a breakpoint (or if magically healed, they are there before being healed), they heal at the rate for that band. Set the rates for the bands as, say, the currently written rates x1, x2 and x3. Joe would then heal at the base rate x3 (so he would heal faster when active than Fred would in bed), since he starts at 21. He would then heal completely in two days of bed rest or four when active, while Fred would need five days in bed.

I haven't crunched anything for this, just made it up 'cos it felt like it might work. What do you think?

Cheers,
Jim
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Dartavian
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Joined: 31 Oct 2009
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Location: Peculiar, Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A characters heath points could be viewed as to sub sets. The first being Base Health Points and the second Health Points Earned.

Base Health Points: The applicable measurement of how much physical damage a character can take before unconsciousness occurs.

Health Points Earned: Bonus applied to the Base Health Point total due to luck, skill & experience.

With the above premises in mind I would suggest that Base Health points be regained as described in the rule book. Bonus Health Points earned due to level or discipline could be regained with an additional increased rate of 1 Heath point per day per level of the character.


Just an idea, I hope my description makes sense.
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JimmySwill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of these methods make sense to me.

I usually prefer to keep it as simple as possible. However, I think there's something to Dartavian's solution, in that it specifically addresses HPs gained by additional levels.

I'd like to put all of this in WGJ3.
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Metathiax
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another way of scaling Health recovery with skill levels could be to simply add the character's (total Health/Endurance - 1) to the healing rates presented in the rules. It might sound like an odd formula at first but I think it would be fairer than adding a bonus per skill level because more Health points are earned at earlier levels and by having a higher Endurance score. This bonus would only need to be recalculated upon reaching a new skill level.

Here are some examples :

A character with an Endurance of 10 starts off with 10 Health points at level 1 and would reach 34 Health Points at level 13 (without purchasing additional Health with skill points). He would therefore get a (10/10 - 1) = no bonus at level 1 and a (34/10) - 1 = +2 bonus at level 13 to his healing rates (1/1/2 vs 3/3/4 Health points per day for normal activity/minimal activity/bed rest respectively; i.e. 10/10/5 vs 11/11/9 days to get from 0 to full Health).

A character with an Endurance of 16 starts off with 16 Health points at level 1 and would reach 76 Health Points at level 13 (without purchasing additional Health with skill points). He would therefore get a (16/16 - 1) = no bonus at level 1 and a (76/16) - 1 = +4 bonus at level 13 to his healing rates (2/3/4 vs 6/7/8 Health points per day for normal activity/minimal activity/bed rest respectively; i.e. 8/5/4 vs 13/11/10 days to get from 0 to full Health).

It obviously isn't a perfect solution but it would sure avoid putting a higher level character to rest for over a month...


MX
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JimmySwill
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a good idea, Metathiax. I'd like to add this to WGJ3, where we already plan to address the issue.
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greyfaced
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should magical healing also be revised?
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Metathiax
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Should magical healing also be revised?


One easy way to do that would be to grant the previously calculated Health point bonus per Circle of the spell/magic providing the healing.

For example, that level 13 fellow with an Endurance of 16 and a total Health of 76 would gain this many extra points for the following :

4*1=4 for Heal Minor Wounds
4*2=8 for Mend
4*3=12 for Heal Wounds
4*5=20 for Heal Severe Wounds

4*1=4 for a Potion of Curing
4*2=8 for a Potion of Healing
4*3=12 for a Potion of Extra-Healing

The Regenerate spell and Potions of Regeneration would work differently, with this +4 bonus being applied per round. As for the Ring of Regeneration, the bonus would be applied per day, hour or round depending on the type and would work for an average of 100 days, hours or rounds (instead of lost Health points) before losing its magical properties.

For completeness' sake, I would also apply this +4 bonus to the Health restored on a Healing Proficiency check.

What do you guys think?


MX
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greyfaced
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is pleasantly simple
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JimmySwill
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very interesting stuff, Metathiax. I think it would really justify a 'healing modifier' to the character sheet, but it is simple enough.

I want to think on this, but I'd love to add this all to the WGJ3.

The only concern I have, is that the spells themselves are fashioned to provide a certain level of healing, and this would generally increase that. In addition, healing a creature without an endurance score might need a generalized /10 or something.
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Metathiax
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I want to think on this, but I'd love to add this all to the WGJ3.


You are more than welcome to do so.

Quote:
The only concern I have, is that the spells themselves are fashioned to provide a certain level of healing, and this would generally increase that.


Yes but I have to agree with JimLeCat that it is odd that healing progressively loses its effectiveness for characters with more Health.

Quote:
In addition, healing a creature without an endurance score might need a generalized /10 or something.


I would tend to make that Health/20 for creatures without an endurance score. Then again, their natural healing rates are also unknown.

EDIT : I'm not sure I would systematically apply that Health/20 bonus for creatures. I think I would rather refer to the rule for grappling with creatures on page 198 and assign Endurance scores to creatures as I see fit when such a situation occurs.

MX
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