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Invisibility

 
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Mongolia Jones
Ecclesia


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Invisibility Reply with quote

The invisibility spell/magic rings seem a bit overpowered. For a fourth circle spell you get from 4 to 8 hours of essentially +5/+10 to dodge and +2 to to-hits and nothing short of a dispel will end it.

As I recall even the Improved Invisibility from DnD only lasted 1 round/level (during combat) and even that was powerful.

I was wondering about the experiences of people who played the game was with this spell. Maybe in Wayfarers it works but I'm just not seeing it.
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JimmySwill
YOGC Staff


Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Torsche

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No MJ, you've got it. It is a very potent spell.

There was an original (my personal) design philosophy behind the game that suggested magic is scarce, it was powerful, and sometimes it was downright scary. Of course, balance was considered. But in some cases, the conclusion was "magic is magic, watch out for those who use it".

That said, invisibility has always been a thorn in the side of GMs. In retrospect, I should have specifically addressed this issue to help GMs out.

One problem is that many players assume a group of invisible PCs can act effectively in a coordinated fashion. I would suggest the GM come down hard on this. PCs that cannot see each other do not know each others positions short of constantly calling them out. If the PCs call out their position, their opponents should benefit from this as well.

Furthermore, if two PCs are attacking a creature and one is invisible, any miss by one PC should have a chance of hitting an invisible PC that is in melee with the same opponent. Melee is a very dynamic event, and it should be considered that opponents in melee are constantly dodging, lunging and circling around each other. Combatants are not simply squared-off and taking turns exchanging blows. Missile weapons coming into an area with an invisible PC should be a nightmare scenario.

In addition, if an invisible PC falls unconscious, they do not become visible. Don't make it easy for another PC to locate or tend to the fallen individual. Penalize their dodge if they are going to take the time to feel about for their fallen companion instead of concentrating on combat.

I do wish I had more directly addressed these topics in the book. Wayfarers does assume a sort of roleplaying style that allows for occurrences that seem unfair in a gaming sense. In some ways the Wayfarers system is more focused upon enabling the creation of a fantasy world, than it is with balanced dungeon-delving expeditions. This might not be the most popular design philosophy, but it was a part of mine. Of course, that isn't to say the fact that this is a game system wasn't also a major consideration. But, in some instances where you or you players might say "WTF, you can do that?!" it was done on purpose. -Note, we did chill out the 'Sleep' spell a bit. Wink

Finally, if all else fails, feel free to change the spell to better fit your style. Or you might move it to 5th Circle, or make it lost to time and require that a player has to recreate it. If he/she does, once word gets out about it, you might make him/her the target of a corrupt guildmaster. That spell might have a nice bounty on it.

That said, if you do play Wayfarers, feel free to let us know your thoughts and opinions like this. We at the YOGC are hobbyists and all input is being recorded and considered. In time, we collectively might come up with a better version of this game. If down the road we feel like we've got so many improvements that it is warranted, we will update this game. So by all means, if you think something like Invisibility is problematic, we want to know. Seriously, I'd be ecstatic if someone wrote a piece called "Invisibility Sucks and Here's How I Fixed It" for the Wayfarers Guild Journal. Smile

-Jimmy
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Ars Mysteriorum
Demiurge


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a fantastic answer!
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Mongolia Jones
Ecclesia


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, good answer.

I will play invisibility as written, I never penalized other players for not being able to see invisible teammates as we play with minis and everyone "sees" everyone else no matter the spell effects. By removing invisible characters from the game board and by using your advice above as a guideline should prove interesting.
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JimmySwill
YOGC Staff


Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 1390
Location: Torsche

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've tended to rely on a whiteboard rather than minis. But I think that's more due to the fact that no one in our group knows where our minis are.

I think once played the Monopoly wheelbarrow.

Let us know how it goes MJ!
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Master Thomas Anopheles
Strategoi


Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Tzalvas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, this all sounds good. And we stopped using miniatures because some of us couldn't use the RESPONSIBLY.

And the easiest thing to do is ratchet down the duration. Trying to have PCs hit other PCs just seems too brutal.
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